NEW OMENS, PROBABLY GOOD ONES

[aria]

WELL THAT CERTAINLY WAS A NEW SEASON OF A CANON THAT'S BEEN AROUND FOR QUITE A WHILE

Was it good? I think that depends on your definition of "good," and if you're looking for, like, a piece of media with the plotting and pacing of a television show rather than a fanfic, no, it's not good; if you're looking for a fanfic, it's got the 6000 Years Of Slowburn tag, as well as such delights as Regency AU, Amnesia, Surprise Gabriel/Beelzebub, and whatever the pithy tag is for when you're trying to get the two humans down the road to fall in love, but also, judged as a fanfic, it's kind of mid?; if the thing you're after is watching David Tennant and Michael Sheen have an absolute blast while being delighted to be in the same place as each other and making increasingly devastating faces, GREAT NEWS.

Which -- I think kind of covers my major feelings about it! It was a bafflingly-paced piece of television, it was a weird mélange of fanfic tropes, it was perhaps my favorite David Tennant situation ever? It was dark-ish comedy where the first season was satire, for obvious reasons, and not really to its detriment, I think, given the direction of the project, but it certainly contributed to feeling tonally like fic. I liked their use and deployment of John Hamm, let that man do more comedy! I was charmed by the decision to let Miranda Richardson, who'd already done a very good Aziraphale impression, get her demon on; I'm also glad they got Nina Sosanya again, and I loved how incredibly prickly coffee shop Nina was, especially in comparison to Sister Mary.

The "minisodes" sort of reminded me of the way they do flashbacks in the Highlander tv show, where it's like -- oh, by free association I have remembered something that happened to me in the past, we'll now go there, a place with light thematic relevance to the current situation but mostly just a space in which to further explore the history of these characters. Which is very fun! I found the flashbacks themselves variable, and I think I enjoyed them in descending order: I fucking loved the Book of Job section, all of Crowley's loopholes so he doesn't have to do murders, his incredible First Temptation of Aziraphale, "humans can arrive at any size," and of course tragic beat-up Peter Davison and phenomenally bitchy little Ty Tennant, fantastic. The bit with the Resurrectionists was fine, I guess; transcribing the conversation about the lunacy/ineffability of holy poverty into the Victorian age is, well, very Victorian, and I loved that they got it in, but Full Laudanum Crowley was a bit too panto for me, I'm so sorry, sometimes I'm too American for these things. Unsurprisingly, as I dislike Nazis, zombies, and the threat of public humiliation in fiction, Nazi Zombie Flesheaters was emphatically not my thing, but it still gave us Crowley panicking while attempting to not shoot Aziraphale, so I forgive them.

Let's see. Oh, I loved episode five so much, I love every Shopkeeper and Trader in this bookshop Regency ball, I love the business of the seamstress/"seamstress" conversation and how Good Place it was and how it was such a sweet little love note to Sir Terry, I love Maggie choosing to stay and help, I love Nina deciding to stay with her, I love that demons can't spell, I love the scene where Crowley confronts Gabriel and nearly gets Jim to jump out the window, it's just a fucking delight. I love that it's queers all the way down, I love the magic shop owner and his nonbinary spouse who was perfectly dressed for a Regency ball, I love the way they chose to conduct Maggie and Nina's not quite beginning of a relationship yet, I love that Beelzebub's been deliberately "they"d all along so even the Gabriel/Beelzebub business is another bit of queerness, and of course--

Like, it's just. Canon now. It's just canon now. It's been thirty-three fucking years, and also twenty since I discovered the book in high school, and in the book they were symbols that were fairly easy to see as shippable foils so we all did, and then the miniseries of the book was so lovely and loving and so firmly in the camp of "of course they love one another, but not really as humans do," and in a perfect world that would also be perfectly satisfying but in this one, where we all grew up queerbaited to hell and back, to get this-- Idk, man, I'm so glad queer media is a thing now, and also that kiss was one of the worst and most devastating things I've ever seen, I'm so happy, I can't stop making little wailing noises, THANKS GUYS. (As an aside, I'm kind of happy that the writers' strike helped David Tennant avoid all these interview questions about the nature of Aziraphale and Crowley's relationship, because I saw one where he was evasive as anything because he'd clearly been instructed to not spoil anyone, and oof, what a weird exhausting press junket that would've been!)

I don't really mind that it's a WIP and a cliffhanger, although I will be lowkey stressed until I know a third season is happening; the canon is still the canon, I would absolutely survive without resolution, but fuck do I want to see David and Michael act out the fix-it fic!! In the meantime: my first reaction to the ending was baffled indignation, because hmm Aziraphale is a mildly load-bearing character for me and I really wanted him to have done the work to divest from Heaven! I sort of held this reaction at arms' length because of aforementioned emotional loadbearing, and on a day's reflection I actually feel great about the end. Of course Aziraphale wanted to return when someone was kind to him! Of course he wants to fix the broken system because he wants it to be the promise of itself! Of course he wants Crowley at his side and can't imagine why anyone wouldn't want to be an angel again! I also suspect that, given we only got Aziraphale's report afterwards on the contents of the conversation with the Metatron, there's more in there we don't yet know, so I'm intrigued there. Also, I'd have to rewatch, but it occurs to me that both Crowley and we the audience know Gabriel was going to be memory-wiped for not wanting to restart Armageddon, but it's possible Aziraphale still thinks they were after him because he wanted to run away with Beelzebub? Again, I'd have to check, but Aziraphale might not have all the information -- not that it matters, really, I'm with Crowley that if "please stay with me" isn't going to cut it, that's answer enough (for now).

My spouse theorizes that the reason Heaven wanted to snatch Aziraphale back is that they're fucking terrified of how Aziraphale and Crowley together (a) somehow were immune to their punishments and (b) then collectively did a miracle that should technically only be performed by an archangel -- they're too powerful, together and uncontrolled, so either you get them both back or you separate them, either way, excellent. This gets into the speculative, but of course the next thing I'm going to do is go hunt down everyone else's reactions and speculations and then probably make a feverish storm of fanworks, because this season of television was messy and weird and tragic and absolutely fertile ground for us to have a screaming creative breakdown about it for the next while! YAY.

Comments

[tellingetienne]

I AGREE WITH ALL OF THIS SO MUCH ARI

[tellingetienne]

I'm still really shaken about it being CANON NOW.

I have a lot of big feelings about how it would be different if Pterry was still alive, and I'm struggling to accept it as canon because of that

BUT ALSO, IT'S CANON NOW??

[aria]

IT'S CANON NOW?? AHHHHHHH

Also honestly the thing about "what if Pterry was still alive" is that first season also would've been very different, and it's ... certainly not book canon, none of it is book canon, but it feels like a piece of art that was made with so much love for him that I feel perfectly happy with it being the kind of canon that's a love letter rather than a collaboration, if that makes sense

[petra]

I'm so glad queer media is a thing now, and also that kiss was one of the worst and most devastating things I've ever seen, I'm so happy, I can't stop making little wailing noises, THANKS GUYS.

This this this so much this all of this yes my HEART

(If I never see anything in this show called "queerbaiting" ever again it will be Too Damn Soon.)

As for canon but Pterry -- yeah -- yeah. It hurts me in a different part of my heart from the ineffable divorce, the one where I care about tangible things.

But Pterry. I doubt he would've been against that beautiful, excruciating kiss.

[aria]

(Hahahaha if I never see anything in this show called "queerbaiting" it'll be WAY Too Damn Soon.)

And -- yeah, of course, but all of it feels shaped by love, including the places where you can feel his absence; the kiss feels like something much more likely to occur to Neil than to him, but not remotely in a way that feels against the spirit of the thing.

[alpheratz]

Yeah, Crowley definitely didn't tell Aziraphale anything about what heaven was doing with Gabriel. I wish he had! But they don't talk. And like. The same thing is going to happen to Aziraphale, so I'm guessing there's going to be a strong element of Crowley rescuing him in season 3. Which I think Neil has already said he's writing, so I'm pretty confident it's going to happen.

I really, really enjoyed this season. The pacing was for me a head giveaway that something hinky was going on; by episode 3 there was still no real A/C relationship development and I was like uhhhhh??? (That said, I really didn't see the ending coming and scremt a lot into a pillow. Combined with a lot of incredulous laughter.) Regardless, even though the pacing was not great, I really liked that the slow pace allowed a lot of good interactions between characters. Not just the ball (god, all the Austen jokes and references were so hilarious to me) but just characters vibing.

I feel like I can't evaluate this season objectively because - like you said, it's finally canon, they really did do the thing, all the other characters acknowledge it and Crowley acknowledges it and Aziraphale touched his mouth and almost cried. So honestly to me it was perfect.

[aria]

Yeah, I've had more time to think about the scene now and it feels so much like the Metatron simply did a masterful manipulation of the specific ways in which they don't talk and still don't feel totally secure in the relationship, asjkfdjfdshjsdf. Neither of them have all the necessary information!! Ahhhhhhh

Yeah, the thing about the pacing being slow and character-focused is that I'm not at all used to my genre tv doing that for a whole season but honestly I really loved it.

And hah you sound extremely similar to me at the end of TMA ("I cannot evaluate this objectively, they did a kiss and stab so to me it was perfect--") but yeah YEAH THEY ARE VERY SPECIFICALLY IN HORRIBLE QUEER LOVE AND IT'S VERY, VERY EXPLICITLY IN THE TEXT AND IT'S PERFECT

[such_heights]

Yeah I really don’t think I can answer the question of was this season ‘good’? Idk but it had many things I like very much and I got to gaze at my beloveds being desperately in love with so many ways and then I’ve been weepy about the ending on and off all day and that will probably continue tbh!!!

[aria]

Frankly on reflection I cannot think of a better definition of "good" than "I really enjoyed myself and had a ton of feelings and they ARE IN LOVE" so -- yes, it was good, it was the best, I'm also still experiencing Too Many Emotions

[dramaturgca]

Okay, fully with you on not liking nazis or zombies or contact embarrassment (definitely muted the entirety of the magic act because I just couldn't) BUT what that minisode had going for it was Tennant in 40s clothes, which was entirely worth the price of admission, and not only that, sprawling in 40s clothes.

I had a lot of trouble with the Job section mostly because Tennant's beard was so appallingly there. Could not even begin to take it seriously. People saw him and didn't even guffaw and that seems highly unrealistic to me.

Much as I thought Miranda Richardson and Nina Sosanya were excellent in their parts, bringing them into this new season as different characters felt confusing to me. (The person I was watching with thought that Nina was actually Mary from s1 and it was kind of baffling. Also that Shax felt close to Shadwell and I spent the first episode trying to parse if this is what happened to Madame Tracy after Shadwell died for some reason.)

Overall, quite enjoyed it, rather wish we had saved it for after the end of Witcher, which is very high on the grim and miserable scale.

[bripops]

omg so as I was saying on twitter (idk if we're mutuals?) I wanted to just eat my phone after watching it twice lmao. I watched it first thing that morning and then made Mel watch it with me again and yeah. just. eat my entire phone. I don't have the investment in the source material that a lot of people do, I tried a few times to read the book but unfortunately just can't jive with Terry Pratchett's writing style so I was actually really excited about the show because I found the concept so interesting!

in terms of "was it good," I stopped asking myself that question about media content I consume a long time ago. the main question for me is "did I have fun watching it" and the answer is a resounding yes. in terms of your first paragraph, I'm definitely on team "here to watch David Tennant chew scenery" so obviously I had a great time

my theory re: heaven being willing to take Crowley back in addition to Aziraphale is consolidation of power and leverage. the two of them are obviously insanely powerful when combined, and by the time Metatron makes the offer it's pretty clear that Crowley will follow Aziraphale anywhere. if Crowley is reinstated as an angel, it won't be a homecoming, it'll be him finally getting brought to heel. accepting would mean heaven could keep him in line with the threat of falling again and losing Aziraphale in the process too, this time with the added threat of harm to Aziraphale by association

in terms of Aziraphale's eagerness to return to heaven, I don't hold it against him in the slightest. because when you think about it, not only is Aziraphale not understanding the full scope of what Crowley’s fall cost him, Aziraphale wasn’t even there for his own rejection by heaven. he was cast out too but like Crowley says to Gabriel, Aziraphale wasn’t there to see the contempt and distain with which he was treated by the angels he’s now saying he’s going to go work for/with. but Crowley was, and he’s been carrying that rejection for both of them this whole time. again, like you said, they don't talk. I don't think Crowley told Aziraphale more than the absolute bare minimum, and it was pretty clear that he was still holding onto a lot of fear/contempt for Gabriel over it

also, I'm sure others noticed this, but I didn't make the connection until the second watch that the whole deal in Edinburgh where Crowley is like "if they were mad they would have brought me back to hell to be punished by now" and then promptly gets dragged back to hell was in 1827. as far as I can tell, Aziraphale doesn't see him again until 1862 when Crowley asks for the holy water as insurance "in case it all goes wrong" so, uh, OUCH.

my only real criticism is that we got a lot of great character development for Aziraphale and not much for Crowley, which was the case in s1 as well. I think it's largely because he's been there for a long time in terms of emotional development to recognize his devotion to Aziraphale (even if it wasn't fully recognized as romantic until ep 5, though honestly I don't think that's the case) so he wasn't really the one who needed to get to that place. but still, I want a 70,000 word character study covering Crowley’s progression from thinking it can’t possibly hurt to ask a few questions to knowing exactly how much it can hurt and asking Aziraphale to run away with him anyway, and then asking again in s2 despite how much it obviously costs him to do so

because idk that he ever really believed Aziraphale would agree to Alpha Centauri or that it would even accomplish anything if he did, but by the time he asks Aziraphale to be an “us” he has enough proof of concept to know there’s a chance that this time, if he can just get Aziraphale to say yes, it might work. the problem is that Aziraphale changed the stakes before Crowley could even ask the question. he’d planned on saying something because he realized maybe it was possible after all but that if he didn’t put a voice to it things wouldn’t change or grow or be anything more than what they already were, but then Aziraphale comes in and interrupts him with his news and now it’s that if Crowley doesn’t put a voice to this and get Aziraphale on board he’ll never see him again

like when Crowley starts talking he knows that romantic rejection is no longer the worst possible outcome. what he’s putting on the table has to be enough to get Aziraphale to walk away from what he’d just been offered because otherwise he’s going to go back to heaven which is pretty much the only place Crowley can’t follow and that would rip them apart worse than any awkwardness over Crowley getting turned down ever could. and then when he was Saying His Piece at the end of the last episode there’s a point where he’s transitioning from being like “we’re a team” into actually asking for what he wants and he literally has to grit his teeth and make a noise like it is physically painful for him to be making himself vulnerable to rejection by asking for what he wants and I wanted to DIE because he knew, at least on some level, that he'd already lost but had to try anyway

basically I'm here for raw nerve!Crowley and how much fun David and Michael were having, so I have no complaints. I had been spoiled for the kiss back in June like a lot of people, and tbh I never thought it was going to be queerbaiting or some kind of fake out which is wild. I would never have expected it or seen it coming had I not been spoiled, but based on Sandman and the things Neil has said about queerness on that show, I was optimistic that it was legit.

for fanworks, this was post s1 so it doesn't include any of the new canon (a wild thing to have just typed) but it did completely rearrange my molecules so I cannot recommend it highly enough https://archiveofourown.org/works/20392135

[starlady]

I was really struck by the episode where Aziraphale borrows the car while Crowley minds the bookshop and they both do a credible job of it! It is a staggering level of mutual trust compared to the first season but also clearly shows how they don't talk and still have a ways to go: Crowley is living out of the car and Aziraphale either doesn't notice (?? he helps put the plants back in it!) or doesn't think that it might be bothersome to Crowley because Crowley clearly hasn't said anything because, you know, they still don't talk. Or at least not enough about the crucial stuff. And that's the problem in a nutshell.

I will probably be back with more thoughts, I'm still absorbing everything!!

[shipperslist]

if the thing you're after is watching David Tennant and Michael Sheen have an absolute blast while being delighted to be in the same place as each other and making increasingly devastating faces, GREAT NEWS.

Yes, this. I'm not sure I liked the way S2 was built but this I enjoyed to bits.


My spouse theorizes that the reason Heaven wanted to snatch Aziraphale back is that they're fucking terrified of how Aziraphale and Crowley together (a) somehow were immune to their punishments and (b) then collectively did a miracle that should technically only be performed by an archangel -- they're too powerful, together and uncontrolled, so either you get them both back or you separate them, either way, excellent.

Ohhh I like the way your spouse thinks!

[oracne]

I love that there was a kiss but the whole breakup thing felt hinky to me.

Aziraphale doesn't want to be in charge of Crowley and make him be an angel again. Much less go back to heaven and crappy bureaucracy? Unless Metatron did something to him - we didn't see their discussion, or much of it.

[petra]

In re: breakup hinky, Metatron probably culpable: can I interest you in ariaste's conspiracy theory?

[oracne]

Have skimmed and that's...more thought out than my gut feeling, lol. Will look at later in more detail.

[thingswithwings]

Idk, man, I'm so glad queer media is a thing now, and also that kiss was one of the worst and most devastating things I've ever seen, I'm so happy, I can't stop making little wailing noises, THANKS GUYS.

YUP YUP YUP this exactly. that ending was so devastating and so well done and I loved it and also I HOPE I DON'T HAVE TO STAY IN THIS PLACE FOR THREE YEARS WAITING FOR THE NEXT SEASON???

I also love your paragraph here on Aziraphale, which is exactly my take as well - like, we already know that he blooms when someone shows him even a little (seemingly) genuine kindness, because we've seen his relationship with Crowley, we know that no one else in heaven was EVER kind to him so the moment the metatron shows up, Aziraphale is glad to say "I misjudged him before" and duck back into his survival modes of "heaven is good actually, there's just mismanagement" and "I can fix him, mom, he loves me really." UGH it's so frustrating to watch but only because it's so understandable, I think, like, we all know how people can see abuse and awfulness and toxicity over and over and they keep suppressing it because it's the only way.

Season 3: Aziraphale Finally Grapples With the Sunk Cost Fallacy

anyway sorry to go on and on! your post is exactly correct and you are correct and I knew you'd have all the right vibes

also lol it is ABSOLUTELY fanfic and it is ABSOLUTELY mid (episode 4 is so bad) and I would ABSOLUTELY reread

[strixalba]

Oooh, I'm glad I checked your dreamwidth before texting you to ask if you'd seen the new series! I was looking forward to your thoughts on it. Haven't seen it, so I can't engage with your actual notes much, but I've been on the fence about whether or not I even wanted to watch it, and whether I was going to have to leave Partner T to watch it by themself. It sounds like something I can suggest that we watch together without feeling myself shrivel inside (aside from the vicarious embarrassment thing, which, thank you for the heads up on that, it's The Worst).

And anyway, having watched significant portions of Bryan Fuller's body of work and gone through the last season of TMA, what's a little weird pacing among friends?