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this post is about tortall
A few weeks ago I got the first two Beka Cooper books from the library, and, to my surprise, read them all in a go. (Or most of them; I had to return Bloodhound when I was only halfway through, so please no spoilers.) I say 'to my surprise' because somewhere in the Trickster books I reached the conclusion that I like Tamora Pierce books best when they have fabulous camp villains and lots of swashbuckling, and that her older stuff ran on nostalgia value but I'd just outgrown her. Beka Cooper told me it wasn't so; I love those books, and they filled me with the deep enthusiastic desire to go reread Alanna.
I'm at the beginning of In the Hand of the Goddess again now, and ... wow, right after reading the Beka books, it's weird. I keep imagining all the brilliant worldbuilding things that could happen! All the brilliant gender commentary! All the ... yeah, man, I still don't know what to do about the Bazhir. Possibly open diplomatic dialogue instead of making Jonathan the Voice?
The point is, though, that I keep imagining a much longer, in-depth, and progressive set of Alanna books. There would be a lot more history, especially in regards to the Old Ones and the Black City; I'd love to see those match up with the developed mythology of the later books. There would be a bit more time to get to know Raoul and Alex and Gary and Jon and Miles and George, though, bless them, I love them all even though they're mostly sketches compared to her later character work. There would just be more time for everything, the psychology of Roger and the war with Tusaine and foreign relations and the Roof of the World and everything with Thom and and and.
Really what I want, though, is the narrative of a girl who lives as a boy for eight years. And yes, there's a bit of that, but -- oof. I actually keep wincing a little. Alanna keeps being convinced that she has to prove herself five times over to be as good as the weakest boy, and utterly loathes it when she hits various milestones of female puberty, and scowls a lot when people tell her gently that she can't change what the gods gave her. On the other hand, she ends up growing very comfortably into herself, so I'd say she's maybe a bit genderqueer but not, at the end of the day, in the wrong body. What I really want is for her to identify however the fuck she wants, and while I'm at it, let's examine how Jonathan is mostly into her when she dresses like a girl and he remembers that she's a hot lady, while meanwhile George kisses Alan on street corners and Liam flips out no matter what. Oh, and let's talk about how Alanna's entire close social circle for eight years was a group of excellent guys who definitely talked about the ladies they were into while she is around; damn but it would be excellent if Alanna was bi. I am sure there are plenty of court ladies who are not silly or scheming! That would be amazing and add so many tasty layers to her ridiculous on-and-off thing with Jon. And of course she can end up with George anyway, pay attention, George makes out with Alan on street corners.
Fff. I need to shut up that awful little voice in the back of my head that keeps saying so write it yourself.
I'm at the beginning of In the Hand of the Goddess again now, and ... wow, right after reading the Beka books, it's weird. I keep imagining all the brilliant worldbuilding things that could happen! All the brilliant gender commentary! All the ... yeah, man, I still don't know what to do about the Bazhir. Possibly open diplomatic dialogue instead of making Jonathan the Voice?
The point is, though, that I keep imagining a much longer, in-depth, and progressive set of Alanna books. There would be a lot more history, especially in regards to the Old Ones and the Black City; I'd love to see those match up with the developed mythology of the later books. There would be a bit more time to get to know Raoul and Alex and Gary and Jon and Miles and George, though, bless them, I love them all even though they're mostly sketches compared to her later character work. There would just be more time for everything, the psychology of Roger and the war with Tusaine and foreign relations and the Roof of the World and everything with Thom and and and.
Really what I want, though, is the narrative of a girl who lives as a boy for eight years. And yes, there's a bit of that, but -- oof. I actually keep wincing a little. Alanna keeps being convinced that she has to prove herself five times over to be as good as the weakest boy, and utterly loathes it when she hits various milestones of female puberty, and scowls a lot when people tell her gently that she can't change what the gods gave her. On the other hand, she ends up growing very comfortably into herself, so I'd say she's maybe a bit genderqueer but not, at the end of the day, in the wrong body. What I really want is for her to identify however the fuck she wants, and while I'm at it, let's examine how Jonathan is mostly into her when she dresses like a girl and he remembers that she's a hot lady, while meanwhile George kisses Alan on street corners and Liam flips out no matter what. Oh, and let's talk about how Alanna's entire close social circle for eight years was a group of excellent guys who definitely talked about the ladies they were into while she is around; damn but it would be excellent if Alanna was bi. I am sure there are plenty of court ladies who are not silly or scheming! That would be amazing and add so many tasty layers to her ridiculous on-and-off thing with Jon. And of course she can end up with George anyway, pay attention, George makes out with Alan on street corners.
Fff. I need to shut up that awful little voice in the back of my head that keeps saying so write it yourself.
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But yes, aren't the Beka books good? I was sort of out of sorts with Pierce after the Aly books--problematic premise, great execution except for Nawat, which is a huge exception--but the Beka books are great. Which reminds me, I should really read Tortall & Other Lands before I have to return it to the library.
In conclusion: I would read any of this that you would write so hard.
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The Beka books are amazing. They're so many of the things I love about Pierce at her best: a lovely heroine with occasional self-doubt who absolutely earns her victories, lovable rogues, magic that fits itself seamlessly into the plot, excellent lady role models, and FAITHFUL, I imprinted pretty hard so I am delighted with Pounce. And she does some interesting things with gender and sexuality in those books too, although since I haven't finished Bloodhound I don't know if she drops the ball on that.
You have reminded me that I should see if my library has Tortall & Other Lands, because it sounds pretty excellent.
I REALLY WANT TO WRITE IT. I should perhaps finish my Alanna reread first so I'm not relying on old memories.
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My headcanon diverged before the series got actively shippy and so I had this extended Alanna/Jon/George devotion that was a whole lot more egalitarian than what wound up happening when they actually got together in the books. Also Thom got to be a hero.
But now, yeah, I'd *love* to see an Alanna who was actually able to embrace her genderqueer identity, and more history of the universe, and lots and lots more Roger and Thom.
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Absolutely give the Beka books a go! I'd also give the Immortals books a go, although I say this not having reread them in a while, so I don't know how they hold up, I just know that I adore them.
It is alarming how much I want to write this other version of Alanna! Augh, the ridiculous projects I give myself. Not to mention the fifty other things I'm in the middle of.
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If you haven't read the Immortals Quartet yet, I ... have no idea if I should recommend it, because I haven't reread them recently! But my memory of them enthusiastically recommends them.
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I just reread the Alanna Series last december because I had to write a fic about it...
It turned out Alanna/Gareth :D
I still need to translate this, it's in german...
I'd love to read something about Tortall from you...
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I think the thing about the Lioness quartet is that they are both simpler in craft and pitched -- whether purposefully or otherwise -- more strongly at a younger reading audience. I quite liked the Alanna books when I first came across them (and have myself just finished the two Beka Cooper books), but I don't think they quite work as "crossover" reading for adults, in the way that some other books/series do (I am thinking here, for instance, of Diane Duane's "Young Wizards" novels, and of much of Diana Wynne Jones' body of work).
As has been noted, the "Winding Circle" cluster of novels are a somewhat different matter, as are the Beka Cooper books; Pierce has grown more ambitious and more polished along the way. These last I'd certainly recommend to adult readers of fantasy in general; the early Tortall books, not so much -- not for reasons of quality, but for appropriateness to audience.
(Pay no attention to the tiny animatronic postman bicycling up to the little voice in your head with a suspiciously megaphone-shaped parcel....)
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I thought Pierce's portrayal of certain male secondary characters' alternative lifestyles and relationship was very well handled. I was a bit less happy with the resolution given to Beka's own relationship -- while I think the end result was the right one, it seemed to me that the execution of said result was a trifle rushed. (A point: it seems fairly clear from Pierce's end-notes that she is planning further books in the series, and that strikes me as important in the context of Beka's romance in this book.)
On the other hand, I noticed in looking at the published reviews of Bloodhound that most of them describe Beka's romance as "slowing down" the book -- which I think misreads Pierce's plotting, pacing, and characterization. We need the context of that relationship as certain other parts of the plot move forward....
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I would read the heck out of your version, though. :D
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Hee, unexpected Alanna/Gareth! That must have been fun.
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(Noooo, tiny animatronic postman! Don't give my headvoice that megaphone! ...Honestly it's probably too late. I'm already outlining scenes in my head.)
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I ... suspect my version may get written. I just finished rereading In the Hand of the Goddess, and I have so many scenes outlined in my head already. /o\
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Haven't read Beka yet.
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Unlike other people on this comment thread I haven't been able to sustain much interest in the Beka Cooper books, although I love Tamora Pierce more than anything. I got through the first...one and a half, I think, but they felt recycled and kind of juvenile to me, a step backwards in sophistication from the end of the Kel series and the Aly books. Perhaps I'll have to give them another go, though, seeing how many people are excited about them.
Also, +1 to the idea of you writing (gender)queer Alanna fic. PLEASE.
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I suspect that a large part of the reason I loved the Beka books is that I've ... grown into them? The last time I tried giving Tamora Pierce books a go, I was still young enough to really love the Alanna and Daine books, and hadn't really grown up enough for Kel and Aly; on a reread I might like Kel and Aly's stuff better than Beka! But divorced of other contexts, they're delightful.
Rereading away! Probably will write things. :D
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Every so often I need to reread the Alanna and Daine books just because (I always feel a bit bad for the Circle fans because they feel so overshadowed by TORTALL TORTALL TORTALL), and it's really quite interesting to see how Pierce has grown as a writer. The Beka Cooper books are so much more nuanced (I still pitch a fit at the whole Alanna/Jon business), and I like that she's still pushing the envelope and expanding positive role models for all different types of people.
Also, have you read Ash and Huntress by Malinda Lo? One of my friends called her this generation's Tamora Pierce, and I'm suspecting they might be on to something. I think you would enjoy them a lot.
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I will SEND YOU a CAKE in the MAIL
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